By Falconas on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 01:11 pm:

...and how i became 

By Exdukenut on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 02:11 pm:

Have you got one leg shorter than the other, (or is it to compensate for the shite Aprilia stand) , or is that a new way of getting your knee down?

 

By Falconas on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 08:22 am:

I just don't have a good picture of a jump with the Falco!
Here a small sample of riding, more to come later
 

By Geo on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 09:54 am:

Nice body positioning, cheek off the seat, leading with the shoulder, looking throught the inside, perfect!
The only thing missing was a turn to do it in!!

We've just had a loooong debate (long is my fault as usual) about "gratitious" hanging off on another forum.
IMO street riders today are making too much of it -way before there's any chance of running out of ground clearance or rubber either.
Todays tyres have softer and grippier shoulders than the middles, I don't see any advantage by not leaning more.
Hanging does not mean you have a wider contact patch, does not lower the centrifugal force or the center of gravity either.
Those are all misconceptions.
Yeyyyy, debate!!! 

By Falcokev on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 10:57 am:

Geo

By experimenting on track days I've found that I can get an extra 5-10 mph in corner speed before decking the hero blobs compared to staying in the middle of the seat. I don't know the science of the thing ... just know it works !

(Feels pretty cool too )

falcokev 

By Befbever on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:11 am:

You're wrong (again ), Geo. And here's why:
by hanging off a bike you're forcing it (or at least you should be) to stay more upright thus allowing corner speed to increase.
This does not mean that when you hang off, your corner speed does increase. As Falconas painfully illustrates . Although in his defense, the Greek tarmac invites one to keep the bike as upright as possible.

You need to push the bike upright and concentrate on doing that. So you can go faster through the corners.

As for kneedowns, you need supple hips and a flexible back for that, which I didn't have at Rocky. I do now, thanks to a chiropractor.
Getting your knee down doesn't mean you're any faster though. It's just a confidence thing. As Singlesman said: 'It indicates how far you will travel if you bin it.'

But it is true what you say about street riders making too big a deal of this. I can't count the 'riders' that are hanging off loads but don't reach any lean angle to speak off. 

By Oldgit on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:22 am:

Hay from my memorise of Zakynthos, Falconas is doing ok. I road across this Island on a hired Yam (NO Brakes) the roads ran out of tar surface with no warning and were like dry river beds, if you dared stop the locals fill you with ouzo

Beautiful place but I rekon it must of changed a bit to be finding falco roads, either that or falcanos has knobbly tyres.  

By Geo on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:23 am:

I never said that hanging off doesn't with help ground clearance (and other things) when it's needed.
What I meant is that today most riders hang off all the time, whether they need to do it or not.

It reminds of tucking down inside the bubble, stomach flat (or stomach round in my case) on the gas tank and looking through the windscreen....at 50mph on a sunny day.

- Falcomas I really have no clue on what curve was coming up ahead on that pix, for all I know the apex was further ahead and you hadn't started closing in on it yet.
I just used it as an excuse to start all this noise.  

By Falconas on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:28 am:

It's no only how you go faster, it's aslo how you feel comfortable. For example, HAGA likes to get off the bike a lot, on the other hand EDWARDS likes to keep closer to the bike. It is just a matter of feeling. Anyway at the road i always leave something in reserve for safety.  

By Befbever on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:32 am:

---

Quote:

if you dared stop the locals fill you with ouzo

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By Geo on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:44 am:

Befbever chimed in:

"by hanging off a bike you're forcing it (or at least you should be) to stay more upright thus allowing corner speed to increase"

Every track school starts by the exact same phrase.
Unfortunely that statement is so devoid of qualifiers (simplistic IOW) as to be wrong.
More unfortunely even, that's all that a lot blokes remember and then they spend the rest of their lives desesperately trying to keep their bikes upright -not you Bef but you know what I mean.
In spite of the old myths the contact patch is the same size (determined by the psi) and the grip is actually better leaned than upright (noticed how much warmer the shoulders get than the center?).
Until you ran out of traction, ground clearance or the suspension can't cope at that angle of lean there's NO advantage in being more upright rather than leaned.
(on smooth roads and dry weather for this argument's sake).
I got mates that drag their butts on the pavement, miss the apex by a mile and their tires still have chicken stripes on them.  

By Geo on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:52 am:

Falconas reminded us:

"HAGA likes to get off the bike a lot"

We noticed!
 

By Befbever on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 12:02 pm:

---

Quote:

Every track school starts by the exact same phrase.

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By Geo on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 12:26 pm:

Here is a very clear description of correct body positioning ( other than the usual "upright is better" nonsense at the beguining).

http://trackjunkie.com/features/articles/2002/0602/0602_001.htm

Keith Code and everyone else still repeats the old "wider contact patch" mantra, and it's utter non-sense with modern rubber.
Of course back in the days when a race rear was a bias-ply 120/60 then yeah, the least you leaned the better off you were, but no more.
I LOVE modern tires! 

By Litre1 on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 01:40 pm:

Hey, Geo. Thanks for that article. Anyone else got a published article from a knowledgeable source? That stuff is always worth reading.