|By Racerxlilbro on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 09:15 am:|
Okay, Crmc33 and Scotteq this one's for you...
I installed the mille shock last night. First, there was no clearance issue with the scrader valve interfering with the seat subframe...maybe this is something that varies from bike to bike???
But the part that has me absolutely baffled is in the setup. I was trying to acheive 30mm of sag in the rear and 40mm in the front. The overall length of the Mille shock is about 5mm longer than the stock Falco shock. We started with the spring collar set in the middle, and wound up with 40+mm of sag...so I started cranking the collar to increase preload, thus reducing sag. After about three turns, we got sag down to 37mm. What's curious, though, is when we kept adding turns, it had nearly no effect on sag. I was only able to get down to 35mm. What am I doing wrong? Is 35mm okay?
I haven't ridden the bike yet, so I don't know how it works...
|By Scotteq on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:11 am:|
I replied to your eMail as well... The most obvious thing is the spring's too light. In the eMail I sent you all the contacts I found for Ohlins here in the US - They'd be able to look up the differences in their manuals for you and say exactly what needs to be done. Like I mentioned: Probably a simple spring swap would sort it out. If you buy the spring from Ohlins, then they're obligated to tell you what the deal is and get you the proper part. I wouldn't worry much about valving - Ohlins give you a VERY wide range of settings.
I'd be curious to know if Aprilia changed the linkage on the 01/02 Milles - If they went from the Falco's 2.5:1 leverage ratio to, say, a 2:1/3:1 then there's potentially a big difference in spring requirements.
No reason you can't ride it for the time being, though. Should be nice and plush!
Let us know how it all turns out!
|By Racerxlilbro on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:53 am:|
Thanks a bunch for all your help. I've been working with my guy from the dealer...
Plush? Worse than the stock Falco spring???
|By Crmc33 on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:29 pm:|
Heres my bikes vital statistics.....
------------measured value-----Ohlins recommended
bike only----------27------------25 to 30
bike and rider------40------------35 to 48
------------measured value-----Ohlins recommended
bike only------------9----------5 to 10
bike and rider-------36----------30 to 40
FYI, Im 90Kg but reducing!..anything to avoid buying a stiffer rear spring!
My rear spring has about 10mm of thread left on the preload and its a y2k sachs smille shock (the black one not the goldy one). I could crank it up a little bit more but it feels stiff (!) enuf as it is for our Berliner cobbles. Im running 326mm ride ht rear and 3 lines showing on the fork outers. The bike steers well like this. If anything I may go to 4 lines showing on the front to try and further improve the 'balance' of the bike.
Its worth noting that cranking up the ride height will help shift weight off the rear onto the front hence removing sag off the rear end.
Anyway, Im no suspender eggspurt but I hope this helps.
|By Hansie on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:45 pm:|
You NEED to grind that valve off!!
Now the shock can be touching youre subframe and giving extra friction.False readings as result.
Or did you mount it as the frontforks (upsidedown)?
|By Racerxlilbro on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 02:48 pm:|
Are you sure? I found enough clearance that I could wiggle the shock around in the mounts! If that's true...it would affect the sag reading, no? All I did was remove the plastic cap.
|By Crmc33 on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:33 pm:|
If theres a small gap then youre OK. Its probably that the sleeves in the shock ends are in a slightly different location to mine and Hansies.
Bear in mind that it may still be worth taking the tit off the end of the valve inner so that its flush with the threaded outer. This way, if youre shock moves over and touches the subframe then loss of gas pressure isnt as likely.
|By Benw on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:37 pm:|
I have the same problem with losing gas pressure when I get tits off the end of my inner valve too.
|By Crmc33 on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 01:08 am:|
youve obviously been pumping too much pressure into it
|By Befbever on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 03:44 am:|
Strange, I've had no such problems...
|By Racerxlilbro on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 06:46 am:|
Interesting, my numbers came in right within the Ohlins ranges...I'm curious though...If the spring rate were a little higher, would I have more adjustment left on the preload in the rear???
I guess it sounds bad if I say I want FULL STIFF IN THE REAR!
|By Crmc33 on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 07:07 am:|
a stiffer rear will reduce the sag with less preload reqd. It will also affect the ratio between the loaded and unloaded sag cos the spring rate is higher - ie. more force and hence more weight reqd to move the spring.
I think my numbers show that the ag of the rear under just the bikes weight is a little on the high-side (pardon the pun) compared to the sag with the fat rider aboard.
For me the OE Mille spring is OK but if I were to be regularly carrying a pillion (god forbid!) then a stiffer spring would be reqd.
|By Exdukenut on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 12:48 am:|
That's why remote hydraulic preload comes in very handy...some of us are lucky, hey Bef.
|By Bonerp on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 07:46 am:|
So for my Falco, I could fit the RSV sachs shock?
|By Scotteq on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 06:38 am:|
When this came up, I shot off an eMail to Ohlins USA with a bunch of questions. When I checked eMail this morning I was happy to see (some) answers!
WORD FROM OHLINS USA:
Thank you for your email. The spring 1091-31/95 is a 95 Newtons/mm spring rate, which is the stock spring for the Mille RPR. The stock spring for a Falco with a 165lbs rider is a 130 newton/mm
so you are about 37% soft on the stock spring rate and being that you weigh 180lbs, I would say it is closer to being about 53% too soft, I reccomend a 150N/mm spring which is 850 lbs/in.
We are out of stock at the moment but should be receiving some in our next order from Sweden which is due this week.
We fit 9.5N/mm Springs in our Aprilia OEM forks.
We do make a piston kit that fits the stock showa forks.Part No 3200-01
REPEAT: We do make a piston kit that fits the stock showa forks. Part No 3200-01
What they *didn't* say is/was perhaps more interesting that what the eMail contained... My thoughts:
1) It's an established fact that 00 Mille shocks are freely install-able in a Falco. My understanding is/was that they are/were sprung/valved more aggressively than a shock for an SL is. However, just looking at the spring rates Ohlins gave me tells me that the conjecture around revised rear suspension linkage for 01/02 RSVs is correct. Why else would one need a 50% stiffer spring for a bike that weighs 5lbs LESS??
2) I noted they recommended a 0.95 spring up front. IMHO, that's for track usage - I have a 0.95 in now, and I find it's too stiff for my pathetic putting around, and that the 0.85 I had in there was about right for me. Therefore, it stands to reason that kocking around 10% off of Ohlin's recommended (rear) spring rates would balance a 0.85 front. (For reference, I generally ride on backroads, 50~70MPH on the straights and carry roughly double the recommended in turns. I also like my bike to be compliant since the road surfaces vary from crap to worse. YMMV)
3) Did anyone else feel all their blood rush to their nether-regions when you read that Ohlins make a piston kit for our forks??? I guess I'll just HAVE to pry the Visa card out!
|By Scotteq on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 08:32 am:|
I sent Ohlins back my above thoughts, and received this reply:
You are correct in assuming that the Leverage ratio is different. The weight bias/ rider position is quite a bit different also on the Falco compared to the Standard RSV. Also the shock you have is not for the Standard RSV it is for the SP version (mille RPR in Europe) which has a different link again (The Italians must have run out of the correct shock for Mille RSV's one particular production day.)
You are right on the cusp of a 140 N/mm & a 150 N/mm spring and I always tend to err on the higher side knowing that I tell my self I am 180 lbs when I am closer to 190 but just don't want to admit it.
The Fork Springs I mentioned were just a comparison. We quite often use different rates in each leg to split the difference and I would say you could do the same. We could rebuild the forks for you here or we can sell you the kit. The price is $269.95 and our fork service charge is $110.00 (including oil) Turn around time is aprox 1-2 weeks.
Called about Kit, Ordered Kit, Waiting for Kit.
|By Racerxlilbro on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 11:12 am:|
Wow, see what I started?
Okay, looks like I'll put the standard Falco shock back on until I can get a 130# spring!
|By Tokas on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 11:16 pm:|
And what spring rate is it on the standard RSV?
Is it only the SP (RPR) version that has a different linkage or does this apply to RSV / RSVR? And did something change between the 2000 and 2001 RSVs?
|By Crmc33 on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 03:09 am:|
I think the name of the game is to fit the shock and measure the sag. Then fix it if its too saggy.
|By Racerxlilbro on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 08:07 am:|
LOL! I think Crmc33 is dead on. Mine is saggy!
It looks like somewhere between 130-150n/mm is correct for a Falco...
I'm calling a guy from Computrack today to see what he thinks...
|By Scotteq on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:49 am:|
The SP is different from the 01+ Mille and both are different from Falco.
|By Scotteq on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:51 am:|
The SP linkage is different from everything. The 01+ mille's linkage is different from Falco.
|By Oldgit on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 09:42 am:|
|By Racerxlilbro on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 07:58 am:|
Should have info from Computrack today...hopefully he got the shock via Fed Ex on Friday...
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