By Litre1 on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 07:27 am:

In reflection of the terrorist events a year ago, I just wanted to take a minute to thank you folks oversees that have shown your support. I know the World Trade Center was the workplace for many nationalities, but it was a great loss to so many Americans. Our differences and quirks aside, it has been refreshing to have the support and compassion of so many fellow human beings. Those events serve to show Americans what countries closer to the Middle East have to fear every day. We are so isolated that we forget sometimes. Pardon us if at times we seem selfish, it is only growing pains as we are still a young country. Anyway, I just wanted to say 'Thanks'.  

By Racerxlilbro on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 07:35 am:

Upon reflection on the events of one year ago, I have to say the most moving thing I witnessed, was the tributes done by all of our allies, friends. I wept when I heard the Queen's Honor Guard play OUR national anthem. Truly one of the most amazing moments in my life.  

By Islefalco on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 08:14 am:

The British lived with terrorism for years. We will always stand with those that suffer from it. We are allies of the US.

We also know you cant kill terrorism with guns and bombs. For every terrorist you kill you create another. I wonder where our leaders are taking us and how many more lives will be lost. The politicians don't do the fighting and dieing. Our sons do.  

By Andyjfalco on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 09:04 am:

My thoughts are with all the people toutched by last years events, especially you in the USA. I feel closer to America now and hope this attitude will be the same for the men in power. However, there is a time to stand back and a time to stand up. This is the time to stand up, the world is at stake.  

By Mr_Venjer on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 09:46 am:

My thoughts are with the 1000s of families who lost loved ones.

Islefalco, couldn't agree more. Instead of Blair and Bush showing how much testosterone they have how about trying to get to the core of the problem. It took years but WE managed to do it with the IRA - by discussion and concessions either side.

I fear the day - if it comes - when someone launches missiles at our little island across the water.

Kevin  

By Andyjfalco on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 02:31 pm:

I too would like to see a peacefull solution to this. But, there is one major difference between the IRA and the arab fundementalists; They are willing to die for their religon, not just a political ideal. Open your eyes to the new threat, it wont go away by talking.  

By Exdukenut on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 07:25 pm:

Unfortunately my wife, and my best friend, now have to celebrate their birthdays on 11/9, and this year all they could think about was the lost persons at the World Trade Centre.

It should be the time for celebrating their "birth" days. Unfortunately it happened on THEIR day. It could have happend on anyones day.

Not wanting to aggravate anyone, but why don't we start a movement for a World Remeberence day for ALL THE INNOCENT PEOPLE, WHO ARE CASUALTIES OF WAR & TERRORISM, and make it September 11.

Thoughts are with everyone, even though I didn't respond yesterday.

An interesting statistic I heard from the tributes, was that one of the Investment brokers offices lost 92% of their staff. Of those that lost their lives, there are now 1432 kids without parents, some lost both mother and father, in just that one office.

Sobering thought isn't it! 

By Mr_Venjer on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 01:54 am:

Andyjfalco. You are right, there is a big difference between the 2. But bombing these peeps will only end with more innocent deaths and a tyrant still running loose. If they couldn't catch Bin Laden how the hell are they gonna catch Saddam ? And never forget if they do that would turn him into a martyr and then how many more lunatics will spring up in his place - to avenge his death ???

The ONLY way to solve a problem is to get to the core of it. Ask a question, why are these people aggreived ? If someone came into your house, took away your rights, turned the telly over, didn't allow you to use your own toilet, no playstation for you, etc would you not get mad !!

There DOES need to be discussion, but not the fake bullshit that has been going on, meaningful dialogue. Israelies are there now so they must learn to live together - as they must in N.Ireland. One should not be taking advantage of the other as they are now. The powers that be have a lot to answer for. Sharon needs to stop being pompous and hard headed and arrogant and Arafat needs to get the extremists to stop the bombings.

They should then sit and thrash the ••• out of this situation. Go to a lap dancing club or other male bonding establishment and have a bevvy . Go for a blast and get their knee down around the twisties near the Gaza strip - I don't know, but anythings better than the bollox they are doing - or should that be are not doing now.

I hope I have not offended anyone, just my thoughts. 

By Oldgit on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 04:57 am:

God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change. Courage to change the things we can and wisdom to know the difference.  

By Litre1 on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 05:03 am:

Anyway, thank you for your emotional support.  

By Richandall on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 08:00 am:

Keith, we ran the US flag up at Rookery Park on 9/11 and lowered it to half mast. Didn't think to mention it here at the time, but I'm glad to now.

- Richard 

By Geo on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 09:10 am:

Mr Venjer yes I am offended:

No nation will deal with terrorists but most of the world expects Israel to do so.

Now, I'm NOT defending Israel's polices in a any whatsoever but Arafat is and has always been the head of several terrorist organisations.
You can't deal with terrorists and intentionally killing innocent people is not acceptable in any circumstance, ever.

I also resent that mentioning the tragedy of 9/11, you'd redirected the blame on Sharon for that too. I really don't think that you meant it that way, but if you stop and reread your post you'll see it. Just like the Muslin Extremists and the European press pointing the finger at Israel every time there's a terrorist act around the world.

The saddest fact of life is that not everyone wants peace, and some are willing to stop killing only after they've exterminated every one else.
The mistake that good hearted people like you make is in believing that everyone else is like you : good. - therefore they wouldn't commit such atrocities unless they HAD to!
Wrong.
Don't compare it to Ireland, but to the Serbs and the Croats instead, and maybe you'll start to understand: sometimes guns are the only answer.

I hate it but that's the way it is.
Geo  

By Richandall on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:34 am:

By Geo on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:38 am:

For the record THIS war monger is not convinced yet that we should go to war against Saddam, not as long as he's not an immediate threat.
That day may come but until then, no.
IMHO opinion of course, it's not like I get briefed by the Security Councel right?

Arafat is a different problem, does no one in Europe remember that he is a life long *Egyptian* terrorist?
That he was kicked out of Egypt, Morrocco, Jordan and Lebanon for creating terror in and against all of those countries?
So now he's "Palestinian" and Israel should live with him........Short memories and double standards make for an absurd world.

Sorry for the non-prilia related bandwith folks, but it's the only forum where I can express myself to our English friends.  

By Mr_Venjer on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 02:43 pm:

Geo, fair point. If you liken it to Yugoslavia it makes more sense I suppose. I did not mean Sharon is to blame but he does not seem to ever do anything positive, he just inflames things more.

I am not convinced at all that Arafat is the hard done by one who has no power over the extremists.

Whats done is done though, both parties need to get over it for flip sake. As for negotiating with terrorists, we did that with the IRA. I can't remember them denouncing violence, but I remember a gesture of goodwill when our government decided to free certain terrorists.

WHAT IS THE ANSWER TO THIS MADNESS ??? Aprilias for one and all !! Rolling stoppies through checkpoints, wheelies through town squares, no time for guns, got to rack up the miles during running in period.

The war would start again though "How long for my clutch springs biiiatch ??"
"What do you mean brake disks not covered under warranty !!"
"Why is my clutch slipping after 50 miles, fat pig ??!!!"

Peace to all my nugz  

By Geo on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 06:08 pm:

Sharon is a major a-hole but I for one wouldn't want his job.
In the USA we have a great saying: "good fences make for good neighbours", what they need there is the Great wall of China to keep them apart.
Peace, Shalom, Salaam to all.

and now back to our regular programming........  

By Befbever on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 03:54 am:

Quite interesting to see the different points of view here. The European press has their opinion, I'm European and I have mine.
Whatever anyone's opinion on the matter, let's hope it all works out for the best. It's all we can do.
 

By Twowheels78 on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 07:38 am:

What I don't understand are how people can twist their faith the way they do. In all the releases from Bin Laden he costantly invokes the name of Allah and says its "god's will to kill the infidel whereever he may live". What did we ever do to Bin Laden? We supposedly invaded the holy land. Yeah, to save Saudia Arabia and Kuwait from Iraq. Where would the holy land be now if it wasn't for us?

The Koran does talk about Holy Jihad and how it's acceptable under certain conditions. But one of those conditions is that you never kill innocent women and children or unarmed men. If I'm not mistaken that is actually one of the seven fundemental pillars of Islam. How many of the 2801 people killed at the World Trade Center ever did anything to Islam? Better yet how many were Islamic?

Yeah, so I'm catholic, and one could make the arguement that my views are skewed as a result. But I've never killed anybody, so who's views are skewed?

I like what Geo said, sort of helps to understand why people would do something like this...

---

Quote:

The mistake that good hearted people like you make is in believing that everyone else is like you : good. - therefore they wouldn't commit such atrocities unless they HAD to!

---

By Andyjfalco on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 10:28 am:

Twowheels, the solution is to get rid of ALL religons. Look to the future, stop worshiping the sun. My opinion only.  

By Twowheels78 on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 11:10 am:

If only it were that simple 

By Geo on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 04:50 am:

Education?
Don't forget that two AMERICANS brought down a federal building and killed 150+ innocent people, because "it had to be done".
No remorse either, it was "the fault of the federal government".
If you're dealing with the criminally insane it's rarely a good idea to ask them "what they want".

I wouldn't ask Hamas or the Hezbollah what they want any more that I'd ask that from Hitler, Milosevich, Bin laden or Black September.
What they want is self-evident if you don't listen to what people say but look at what they do. They want the glory of Jihad and every last jew dead or gone from the middle east. Every time there's talks they hurry to derail with bombs.
Why?
Because they don't want peace.
Simple as that.
Me, I can't see a solution other than a great wall patroled by UN tanks to keep them apart  

By Prilliant on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 05:18 am:

Any act of terror is wrong. Whether it be murdering a soldier in Belfast or 3,000 civilians in New York, the result is more families losing a brother, sister, father or mother.

I've seen the consequences first hand and nobody should have to go through that shit for any reason. Religion has a lot to answer for if you ask me.  

By Prilliant on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 05:24 am:

Incidentally, Belfast is full of so-called Peace lines, ie. high walls to stop people of different religions throwing things at each other.

Seems to me building walls is like treating the symptoms rather than the disease. The question is how do we stop people wanting to throw things at each other?  

By Twowheels78 on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 05:51 am:

I did it again didn't I? I assumed that all people are inherently good and therefore do what they do out of necessity and would if given the chance change for the better. You're right, if people don't want to change then education won't do any good 

By Geo on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 07:00 am:

Bef: "that's all we can do"

I think that we have the moral obligation to try to learn what all the facts are, not just what the local newspaper throw at us. When we vote and or pressure our governments it ahould based on valid reasons instead of emotional ones.
The good people are often on the "wrong" side because they think with their feelings.
_________________________________________________

Andyfalco: "get rid of religion"

People would just find another excuse to make war.
religion is not the reason, but a convenient excuse and BTW these guys are not even following their own religion, like all cults they twist things to suit their purpose.

_________________________________________________

Twowheels78: "I did it again"

Yep, but you're not the only one. most of the world thinks the same way...especially good meaning folks!

__________________________________________________

Prilliant: "Belfast is full of so-called peace lines"

Those run through the middle of neighborhoods, I'm talking frontiers with miles of no-man's land around them. And yes it means Israel out of the occupied territories. that also means no more access in or out for anyone. Palestinians included, they'll have to decide on which side of the fence they want to live in...forever.
__________________________________________________

*IMHO*
A big part of the Palestinian dilemna is that for the last 40 years, life has been much better IN Israel than in the occupied territories.
Representation in the Parlament, health care, education, jobs , social services etc.
Very little of which they were able to get under Arafat military regime -and the other Arab nations kicked them out!
A comfortable life with the Jews, or a miserable one with your "Hero-leader"?
That ambivalence is the core of the Palestinian feeling of "dishonor" -not talking here about the extremists but of the population at large.
I lived in Israel in '68 through '70, if anything I had more Palestinian friends than Isreali ones, I really hope that when the nefarious influence of the extremists stops these people will go back to leaving normal lives like they did then.

I've always been and still am a Pacifist, but over the years I've had to accept the harsh reality that sometimes there's NO choice, you must take to arms. Never again? Tell it to the Yugoslaves victims in their mass graves, to the victims of 9/11, or to the 600 plus Israelis that have been slaughtered this year.  

By Mr_Venjer on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 07:38 am:

Religion is not the problem, its man's perception and interpretation which causes the problem. Greed and control are the things behind it. Religion is a good thing. It gives those with nothing the faith and power to believe they are equal and loved by someone.

Man is a fool - we are fools unto ourselves. Imagine, just for example, a Millwall football club fan will want to kill or maime an opposing football fan, why ? Because he supports a different team.

We all need to be more tolerant.  

By Geo on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 08:44 am:

Mr_Venjer: "we all need to be more tolerant"

What *I* can't tolerate is proselytisers.
They have THE truth -and everyone else's beliefs are obviously wrong.
Last week a Jehova witness handed me a pamphlet.
I said :"thank you but I'm Jewish".
Her reply: "it doesn't matter"
Oooooo I let her have it!:
" what do you mean my beliefs don't matter, how dare you insult my faith etc etc"....I loved it to tell truth, he he.

Me, I'm a militant agnostic ( I don't know and neither do you!)

BTW, Organised religion IS man's perception and interpretation. I understand what you meant but don't know how one could realistically separate both.
Moses 3 tablets (oops he dropped one) ok 2 tablets now were the only writing alledged directly "from above" without a "prophet"s interpretation.
I don't know about Moses "vision", after all he lead us to walk in circles for 40 years...
Ok, aside that bit IMHO your answer was deeply based in the Judeo/Christiam/Islamic faith -which I will NOT criticise- but "Religion" preceeds it by millenias.
I believe that it was the original mean to unite people into tribes (or societies) and it did so by separating "us" from "them", a dogma that still remains in effect today.
Ouch!
ps I always though that what a football hooligan wanted was a good fight, never mind what team it's for. Recomended reading : "Among the Thugs" by Bill Buford (W.W. Norton & co)
pps The Mille rules!...now if only it stops raining I could get off this soapbox and go out.  

By Prilliant on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 10:02 am:

Religion and faith are two very different things.

BTW, old joke about Moses and the ten commandments. He comes down from the mountain and tells the children of Israel, "okay, the good news is I got the commandments down to ten. The bad news is adultry is still in!" 

By Geo on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 01:11 pm:

What??? That's ok, after 40 years without taking a bath they couldn't tell the women from the goats.
JihAAAd! JIHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADD!!  

By Andyjfalco on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 03:29 am:

To all who pervert what is basicly a good way to live ie: most religons rules are ok in principal but totaly screwed up in practice.
It's in man's nature to be led, it,s ether by choice or by force. The grass isn,t allways greener on the other side, but we keep on going for a look. Mad!
Believe whatever you want, just keep it to yourselves. Peace.(except to Saddam)  

By Geo on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:04 am:

It's Sunday morning and it's finally SUNNY!
My mission from God is clear, I'm taking out the Mille out on a Jihad.
JiiiiihAAAAAAAAAadddd!  

By Prilliant on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:24 am:

Sunny??? Lucky bugger. Dull as a very dull thing here.  

By Befbever on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:04 am:

Bill Buford? Didn't he used to play drums for Genesis? You know, after Gabriel walked out.
OMG, that sounds religious too!  

By Geo on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:55 am:

This morning I woke up with a clear vision...........no wait, a it's hungover.
I don't know about you guys but 72 virgins sounds to me like hell, I can't imagine spending eternity trying to talk them into it : "but honey, if you loved me, I'll be carefull I promise, no it won't hurt" ?
JihAAAAAAAAAAddd!!
I've found the final solution to the suicide bombers:
Get them laid.
A string of bordellos near the border with signs: "15 free minutes to
martyrs"
Afterwards give them a cigarrette, a beer and send them home.....
I should get the Nobel peace prize for that.
Geo  

By Richandall on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 01:49 am:

---

Quote:

Me, I'm a militant agnostic ( I don't know and neither do you!)

---

By Geo on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 06:03 am:

OOOpppps, nope......that "militant" was just a joke!
I don't want to be a preacher proselytising agnosticism either!
Nope, Live and let live I say.
Geo(...rge)  

By Richandall on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 06:43 am:

So-o-rrryyyy George!!

My cover's still blown!!!!

- Richard

 

By Geo on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 11:34 am:

Hey Richard you'll love this:

http://www.ffrf.org/dawkins.html