|By Scottaride on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 07:52 pm:|
I know this is often asked, but Im a new Mille owner and new to here. I'll probibly have the Airbox (Removed) kit and a Powercomander3, so any advice on the best end can would be appreciated. I also like it loud, with plenty of midrange.
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 11:26 pm:|
I've got a Raceco Ti end can, but I believe Raceco have stopped making them now. A good second hand buy if you can find one though. Stay celar of Blue Flame, the quality is very poor and they deteriotate very quickly, speaking from experience with one.
|By Befbever on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 12:47 am:|
You need to talk to Exdukenut, our most honourable Aussie and V-twin expert. He knows what's good for them Prillers.
|By Befbever on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 01:03 pm:|
Just in case Ex don't read this:
forget that Powercommander thing. It's nice for the track, but a well-sorted Eprom will suit the bike better.
Single or twin cans available in carbon, stainless steel, titanium. Round or oval.
While we're at it, a full system, together with the airkit, will make you wish you'd have bought the Millie sooner.
Plenty of midrange: +10hp at 5k rpm on a Falco suit you, sir? (Airkit, slip-ons and free Eprom}
For all of the above, one address:
I already have a T-shirt, otherwise I'd ask for one.
|By Taffrsv on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 01:21 pm:|
Check this out
its a test done on several different exhaust systems on the same bike and same day, its the best and fairest comparision I've seen so far, I tend to ignore the manufacturers claimed figures they just tell you what they want you to believe.
Also I ignore the final figures and tend to just look at the the way the power curve looks, also the test was done in America where they use SAE in the Uk we use DIN which tends to be higher.
And just ignore the rubbish that follows the original post.
|By Powermaster on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 04:26 pm:|
As a manufacturer, I should be above all comments and regard them as publicity, but there comes a time when I feel that certain comments are no more than an intention to harm one's Company, what one so much dedicates and to harm all those who depend on it. I am sorry but this is one of those times.
Mr Taff, you have achieve your aim. This is no longer a joke but a personal attack on our Company. A man of your age should know better in how to behave and respect others. If you are upset with me, fair, but don't attack our Company to release your anger, that is very low in anyone's status.
Those who read this forum, may not read others and may not understand what I am on about, but I notice that whenever you see the name RENEGADE, I'll write it again, RENEGADE, you tend to somehow comment negatively about it's product, Why? Were you ever a consumer? Did our service dissatisfied you, did it fail to please your demands or expectations? Not that I am aware.
If you are really concerned about other fellow Aprilia owners and what they should buy, I suggest you became an Aprilia dealer and handle all the hassle that we APRILIA owners have to put up with, have no worries about RENEGADE or their products as I am sure each individual can think for themselves. If you are so concerned about the shootout and wish to tell the world about it, don't waste your time, the publicity stunt has now gone top of the charts and Renegade is very pleased with it's outcome, never have our name expanded so fast with so little expense.
RENEGADE has been up since 1982 and the previous twenty years, as C&G exhausts, Campbell Geometrics or Cambray Wheels, during these forty years, many new names have appeared and forgotten, many like you have played your game, but we are still here and under God's wishes we will stay.
Next time you are down south, pop in and see how much sweat it takes to keep we the members of staff on full pay. No, we have no need to deceive our clients to achieve the above, if you cared to read all the testimonials, in maybe the only Manufacturers Site that allows it's clients to say what they wish, be it positive or negative and without censorship, you would have realised, that your attitude is out of place. If you care to read our statement about the shootout you could add your view in the matter, however you simply, like a few others, prefer to inject readers with nothing more than reactionary and unconstructive comments.
Don't worry with the reception you may get on your visit, we treat all visitors with the same care and respect.
Last but not least, please notice that your comments are made on a site that is fully sponsored by Renegade, also here, censorship fails to exist. I very much doubt if a similar situation would have been allowed elsewhere.
"It's what you make it" please don't spoil it.
|By Taffrsv on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 09:04 pm:|
What the F&*% are you on about.
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 11:18 pm:|
forget that Powercommander thing. It's nice for the track, but a well-sorted Eprom will suit the bike better.
|By Rca on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 01:45 am:|
I thought the dyno graph thread was very interesting, not for the power graphs but for what it revealed about the personalities behind the graphs.
It would be a dull site without a moderate dose of reactionary and unconstructive comments (With over 7000 posts on the Falco!!! They can't all be constructive).
Viva La Revolution
|By Befbever on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 01:57 am:|
Rich, my good man,
correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there problems with your dyno chart, ie. a dip?
I was merely pointing out that unless you've got (or are) a bloke that can set your bike up just right, the Powercommander is a bit expensive when you can get an Eprom for free. Right?
My dealer uses Powercommanders with tuned engines, both for the road and for the track. He has only one customer with Renegade stuff and he's seen for himself I don't need it.
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 02:09 am:|
Bef, no dip, just *maybe* less mid range that a Rene setup, but I cannot confirm as I have not tested them back to back. I could install a Rene setup, sure, but don't have the money, and don't think I need anything different. I am sure however that a Rene setup will not beat mine hands down, in a certain rev range maybe, in others I'd put money would not. Horses for courses, midrange or top end....? The problems were identified by other people, but as I've said any 'problem' is not noticable to me on the road or track, so no problem then. Just a perceived problem. MrV's dyno day will tell no doubt, either that or spark WW4. I've never had a problem getting 160mph though.
|By Befbever on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 02:25 am:|
Okay, Rich, point taken.
Whatever the case may be, for a customer such as Scottaride, you'd agree that getting the Renegade stuff (to name but one !), would be a case of popping it in and riding the bike. I thought that was the intention.
Plenty of midrange is what he asks, plenty of midrange is what he'll get. As you said yourself, a Rene setup offers plenty of midrange. You'll get that T-shirt now!
I've never had a problem getting 160mph though
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 02:30 am:|
OK, I'll take a Tshirt, I've nearly worn my coat out...
Sorry maybe I was not so clear, the 160mph was in reference to MrVenjers discussions, not your Falco.
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 04:27 am:|
Rich, I am sorry to disagree with your comments, a PC is good for the track, if you have no other means to set your bike up, the AP does. On the track you can adjust the settings according to your needs, just as easy to change Eproms, however on the road once you set up the PC, that is that, if conditions change the PC will not compensate it will only do what it has been preset at. Unless you go for the PCIIIR you have no command over ignition. You comment that an eprom unless set up for your engine will not work as good, that I have to disagree with, because that really depends on who sets up the eprom and it's compensation factors. however reading the net I notice that alot of people who bought the PC seem to have the same set up as others accross the globe or end up downloading others mapping, because one says it to be better.
I assume that you try to show us an example of Angelo's case and how much power he has, I believe that the job was done professionaly and he came out satisfied, however what he got was exactly the best set up for that days conditions and as you said, including the fuel. I have invited Angelo more than once to visit our place (being so close) to try and help him out as he seemed to be having problems, however he prefered otherwise. What someone does with their money is their problem, but I feel that some of you go to a lot of extremes only to end up where you started. The Ap is one of the most complicated bikes to understand, but at the same time has one of the best set up's as stock. Give it a good air/fuel ratio and she will fly.
Please note that I do not sell eproms or have anything against PCs, give me a GSXR and I will fit one.
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 05:09 am:|
Sure Jorge, some good comments but I guess we just have different views on the Eprom vs PC3 setup. You are however incorrect to state a PC3 setup will not compensate for conditions. In fact the Eprom feeding it compensates, so the PC3 unit does not need to. The std Eprom is damn good at this, as most people will agree. Aprilia you can be sure has put more time/effort into developing that Eprom that any aftermarket company, just because they have manpower and resourse to do that. Obviously the std Eprom is made to consider emmisions too, and the PC3 just gets round this but not to the detrement to any function or compensation device.
As for Eproms being a compromise, well they are. If a company makes an Eprom from road testing/dyno, then ship it to someone they have never met, and a bike they have never seen, you can be sure it is not optimised. Unless an eprom is made for that bike specifically by using that bike as the test/setup machine it will almost certainly not match perfectly, but saying that 95% of eproms will probably match 95% of bikes 95% of the time.
MrV's dyno day may change some minds, maybe my own too, lets hope it does not degrade into the bunfight Mr Zellers did though. I am going with a mindset to learn, and have already said I will donate my parts to offer some more variations. As far as which will come out tops....who knows.....then you have to define what is best and it all starts again (power, torque, low down, midrange, top end etc etc...). Whatever, an open pipe and airkit/box will improve your bike, full stop.
|By Nick on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 07:41 am:|
So which exhaust was good for the Mille then???
|By Befbever on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 09:48 am:|
Glad to find people can disagree without resorting to personal insults.
Rich and Jorge, you both won wet T-shirts.
, I just
have to tell Jorge that if you give me a GSXR, I'll say: "thank you".
Btw, Nick, in answer to your question and according to the shootout: the stock one.
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:35 am:|
Isn'it what this site is all about Bef
I am sorry if we have hijacked this thread. Shall we open another and carry on? We can also talk about the shootout I really enjoy that one too
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:46 am:|
I'm staying well out of the shootout stuff
PS Bef, have you got a job lot of Tshirts from somewhere....?
|By Befbever on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:46 am:|
Oh no, please don't!
Btw, Rich, I've had an Eprom in my bike that says: "sod it" to the rev limiter.
It's not in now, I don't much fancy these two-piece valves breaking.
|By Befbever on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:51 am:|
Oops, Rich, you've outposted me there.
Yeah, you're right, I'm not getting into that shootout rubbish either. Let people make up their own minds. If they're smart enough, they'll know what to do. If they're not, they deserve what they're getting.
Never mentioned any brands there, did I?
T-shirts? I know noooothing.
|By Myapriliarsv on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:57 am:|
did someome say shootout?
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 11:03 am:|
Jim, and well done on the 2002RSVR, every cloud has a silver lining, except yours which is matt black
|By Taffrsv on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 11:29 am:|
This has got to be a first I'm agreeing with Jorge and Rich.
The PC 3 I don't know a great deal about it, but my mate from work who races has one on his CBR 600 and swears by it, his tuner Nicky Kennedy sets it the best on his dyno, but on race day Ginja (my mate) adjusts it to suit the climatic conditions, so lads like Rich and Angelo who have had custom maps made have their bikes running spot on for that days condition only, out in the real world and conditions the bike is not setup for its best performance.
As for the chip (and I run the Factory Pro), the chip is designed in a enclosed work shop enviroment, so again out in the real world in different conditions that again is not running to its best.
So are we all getting screwed on both counts ??? I for one don't care I work damn hard for my money so if I want to carry on chasing those ellusive ponies I will.
Just my thoughts.
SHOOTOUT who's shooting who
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 11:58 am:|
Taff, seen my post on EZgroup about cyl heads....I think I've found some more dobbins, and cheaper than an end can too! Now, where did I put that dentist drill.......
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:02 pm:|
Time for a group hug I think
|By Taffrsv on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:08 pm:|
Bloody hell Rich I only sold you a end can, now you are wanting to hug and kiss me
You have definately changed for the worse since moving DAAWNN SAAWTH
|By Befbever on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:29 pm:|
Ah, Rich, I see, why didn't anyone else think of that? Oh wait, my dealer has, ages ago!
|By Taffrsv on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 12:33 pm:|
think of what ??? kissing me or the cyl heads
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 02:34 pm:|
Rich , you are not going to get away that easily
Taff ,Am I drunk, or have you, come to your REAL senses at last? More later.
In fact the Eprom feeding it compensates, so the PC3 unit does not need to.
but saying that 95% of eproms will probably match 95% of bikes 95% of the time.
then we have to take MR Zeller as part of that group as he too is a manufacturer. We can not, as consumers take that view to the letter otherwise you too would be out of a job.
I tend to ignore the manufacturers claimed figures they just tell you what they want you to believe.
|By Webhamster on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 03:18 pm:|
its a test done on several different exhaust systems on the same bike and same day, its the best and fairest comparision I've seen so far
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:52 pm:|
Cut it out Hammy, we just about calmed it down
Je, you are real rudent
|By Webhamster on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 02:40 am:|
|By Rca on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 03:07 am:|
Keep it up guys and we'll hit 2000 messages sometime next week (Then someone else could get a T-shirt).
|By Mr_Venjer on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 03:28 am:|
Scottaride, soon we will have some real INDEPENDENT evidence of what combinations work best with our Milles. Same bike/dyno etc test being carried out on my RSVR. I have the twin high level slip ons and airbox kit from Renegade. The Akrapovics look the nuts but I tend to go for what looks/sounds good with a bit of what is best. Needless to say I think the results of that first shootout were big bull cocks !
I do not race so I wouldn't reap the benefits of the best yet - but if you offer me cheap hp I'll have it !!
|By Webhamster on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 04:03 am:|
Needless to say I think the results of that first shootout were big bull cocks !
|By Salkhan on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 05:47 am:|
I like the Arrows and Leo Vinci.
Not to be ON TOPIC or anything like that. :D
|By Mr_Venjer on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 06:13 am:|
Hammy, Whoever is in charge of the dynonometer at either PDQ or another place that Diablo Mille R is sorting. I will post all the info as soon as I know.
|By Webhamster on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 07:53 am:|
I like the Arrows and Leo Vinci.
Not to be ON TOPIC or anything like that. :D
|By Powermaster on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 01:31 pm:|
Ok, I get the Message, TOMO, from now on you will start that clock from the time this bastids come in, £35 an hour should buy us a nice dinner, I promise not to speak, but I can always play with the spanners,
There are those who are all talk and those who talk but do what they say, which group do each of you belong
|By Scottaride on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 10:11 pm:|
Bloody heck! All I asked was " whats the best end can?". Over 40 posts and still no real answers....go figure! But theres no denying it makes interesting reading. Incidently, putting diferent pipes on the same bike, on the same day, and doing Dyno tests, is all very well. But surely it is only relavent if the eprom associated with each pipe is also inserted (assuming they have one), and it definitely needs to be a dyno with forced air fans, or it doesnt reflect real world. And as far as a PC3 goes, there is no comparison with an eprom. Because every country has diferent fuels and conditions, and every bike I've ever ridden seems a little diferent from its siblings (In the engine department). So an eprom can only generalise the engine map while a PC3 will talor it to the specific bike and fuels etc. Dont you think?
So....for a wee lad based way down in New Zealand, which end-can seems best if Im going to use a PC3. Cheers
|By Bonerp on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 11:20 pm:|
I'll give you a straight answer....
I've got a Leo Titanium. Only cost me Â£200 from Ally Pally (Jorge, don't say a word!). Looks great, sounds great, bike goes well, and reduced the weight compared to the original by about 500lbs!!!
Also whacked on an Evo filter (Â£38 - RSVR.NET), runs nice.
Wish I could afford a complete system, the Renegade non airbox etc, but I can't (wallet munching baby on the way!!), so I have spent what I believe is a ridiculously small amount of dosh on making a great bike better.
If it makes a bit more power, which I think it does mid range, thats a bonus!
The bikes nothing like my last, a Hayabusa. Will never be like it, Its totally different, so I just enjoy what I've got and ride the bugger (albeit very occassionally lately!).
Stay cool, ride safe, spend what you've saved down the pub!
|By Scottaride on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 11:37 pm:|
Cheers. Apreciate the feedback.
|By Powermaster on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 12:08 am:|
Well, wasn't that the cheap can that was suppose to have pillion footrest facilities??????
Bef, my coat quickly
Oh btw, KIWI Master, welcome to the world of madness, and then there is the Renes too, a not so cheap system, for those without Baby probs
Congrats Boner, start practicing sleepwalking
|By Bonerp on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 03:03 am:|
Yeah cheers, can't wait!!
Rear footrests don't come into it now!! I'd be pulling a monster wheelie if the lady came out now! I'd need a strenghtened sub frame too (really glad she doesn't join me on this site)!!!
I'd now need a Wing (and a prayer!!!)!
|By Salkhan on Friday, July 05, 2002 - 02:18 am:|
Well I haven't TRIED the Renegade slip ons silly. ;) Just the full system.
Ask me which full system I would recommend...
It isn't D&D.
|By Crmc33 on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 04:32 am:|
...the best end can is the most expensive one, simple really init
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 03:49 pm:|
Are you saying that my prices are not high enough
|By Crmc33 on Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 10:53 pm:|
Just wait until Ive bought some b4 raising the price!
...just think how much trade 'Acrappybich' will lose if you double your prices!
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