By Taffrsv on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 01:45 pm:

Sorry check below 

By Dangerous on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 02:19 pm:

Mmmm,
Taff old chap.
Those images, look a little similar to one another me.
I cannot tell which set up gives the best performance!  

By Taffrsv on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 02:38 pm:

Same bike same day, a good data base to work off

Stock


Leo Vinci stock chip


Akra single stock chip


Akra dual stock chip


Euro Rsc ti + Rsc chip


Rsc ti + Rsc chip


Rene dual + Rene chip


Tig dual + Tig chip


Harris dual + Stock chip
 

By Powermaster on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:31 pm:

By Powermaster on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:37 pm:

oohps, that was close,
As this is a graph thread, let's see what my magic bottom managed to do.
 

By Powermaster on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:40 pm:

More
 

By Powermaster on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:44 pm:

Enjoyment Control started complaining

 

By Powermaster on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:50 pm:

Next 

By Powermaster on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 03:52 pm:

Two Falcos, but the reason of these two dynos are to show what happens with a dyno without air fans.
The first dyno , shows a Fuchs dyno run, with the normal fan on and at full blast.
the second, no fans, just like a Dynojet and at full blast.

 

By Powermaster on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 04:10 pm:

None of this dynos are meant to prove anything or defend our Rene. This dynos were all done in front of the clients and some done by the clients themselves, all on different bikes.
The moral of the story must be that all Rene clients either must be damm, for buying a product that gives less power than stock, or I must hyptnotise them in such way that even after loosing power they all stick together to defend the product.

In fact I am more concerned on why all those big name products only achieved so little gains
But I wonder,if this next dyno sheet had anything to do such results
I let you be the judge



Whatever, as I always say.
One must be prepared to accept ones mistakes, before accepting the praises

Night, night 

By R100gs on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 05:36 pm:

Show me the power! Go Renegade!  

By Myapriliarsv on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 06:08 pm:

Jorge

I am so dumb not only did I buy Renegade and think I got more power but I actually became a sales rep for Renegade.

The guy that did the dyno for me must have had a magic button like the one at Jorge's shop...boy do i feel silly...lol.


Jim 

By Taffrsv on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 09:02 pm:

Sorry but I can't see the point of the other dyno charts, the original post is a comparision between different manufacturers done on the same bike same day the best back to back test we have got, the web is full of dyno charts for people, but you can't take anything from them, unless the std power curve is on the chart as a standard to compare the changes to.

In the last few weeks we have had several new members on this and other boards asking what exhaust to buy, this was supposed to be a good benchmark for them to check to, but now in my opinion the post has been spoilt.  

By Crmc33 on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 11:20 pm:

I think all the graphs are useful.
Taff, its good to see different setups on the same day, but Jorges are equally as useful and they have different bikes on different days but comparisons for the same bike for different running conditions, pipes n chips etc.
IMHO It is possible to compare Jorges plots done on the same dyno on different days if the dyno and ram fan is working correctly.
Also, I like how its shows the importantance of modelling at least some of the ramair effect. I know from experience a few years back that a bike carefully set up on a 'non ram dyno' would run very lean and flat on a racetrack and would have to be rejetted again on the road/track for best performance.
I dont know the air speed of Jorges fan, but it sure shows the effect well.
IMHO its unfair to say that Jorge spoilt the thread with extra information. I for one was very interested in his input.
I think its important to state on a dyno if the curve is rwhp and the ram air fan output.
 

By Hansie on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:15 am:

I'm very intrested in all the graph's! Just to see what changes. For the buyer to decide which one to choose they are excelent and very usefull.
If you want power highup or (and) lowdown you know what to choose.
What those graphs dont show is drivability/trotlerespons.The airkit makes enormous improvement in that area and thatswhy I realy like it.

I talked to a guy who bought a Akra pipe because he liked the logo! and the discoloring (blue-ing)of the linkpipe. His R1 got power enough he said , improvement was not an issue.

REMARK A: the SL1000 MBHR81 is mine , but the exhausts are (homemade)dB killed and I loose aprox 4hp above 8000rpm.

REMARK B : why does the evo-dyno starts there runs at 5000rpm??? I use mine daily , with lots of traffic jams, and use the below 5000rpm area a lot.A few brands realy f*ck up the common used 3500 till 5500 rpm area. Gives the text "for racing only" some use........

Hansie 

By Diablo_Mille_R on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 03:01 am:

All these Rene figures are Wheel DIN, and the Evo ones are Wheel SAE, so not really a direct comparison. The only true comparison, as had been mentioned a million times (a million and one now) is same dyno, same day, same bike, same operator. Even using tesco vs Esso fuel will show a difference.  

By Crmc33 on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 03:19 am:

...BUT

the Evo test was done on the same day, same bike, same operator and I assume same fuel. What we dont know (so far) is the type of Renegade chip used and probably more importantly the amount of ram air feed.
For instance, it could be that the chip used makes the fueling especialy rich in the 7500 to 9500 rev range in comparison with the other ones tested. If there is minimal ram air used then this chip will run rich whilst the others run better ON A DYNO. But if you tested the same bike with a 100mph wind forced down its throat then the numbers could well be reversed. It would be interesting to test the Renegade bike ON THE ROAD and then ride the same bike with the Harris (or similar setup showing higher output on the dyno) parts.
As a non-Renegade exhaust runner, it seems odd to me that the plot shows the bike to run relatively poorly between 7500+, even less than a std system, and the complete reverse to the plots on Renegades website. Im interested to hear an explanation from someone in the know on the possible reasons. Or have I already mentioned it?

It all sounds a bit fishy to me! 

By Dangerous on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:40 am:

So Rich,

Which is better?

Tesco or Esso?

 

By Diablo_Mille_R on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:45 am:

From past tests I've done BP super unleaded always came out top, with the same results as the Elf racing fuel for sale at some race circuits. If I could not get BP, the next stop was Esso super unleaded, then Shell. But 110LL from Babgy airfield always made 'em go well......until they banned it. I laways use Tesco fuel in the RSV though as I cannot be arsed to ride to the other side of Didcot to fill up from the Shell or BP garage.  

By Crmc33 on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:23 am:

Its a long way to didcot for me too, so I'll carry on filling up on 60RON trabant fuel from me local butchers 

By Dangerous on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 05:41 am:

Well I always seem to go for Tesco unleaded too. Tesco points instead of HP! Also keeps it simple for filling car, bike and lawnmower!

Rich, were the tests you did on the RSV? If so, what kind of improvements did you see? (Dyno charts?)

Dangerous  

By Diablo_Mille_R on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:06 am:

Dyno's, dyno's dyno's, you boys are obsessed by them

'A dyno is only as good as the bloke pressing the magic button' Quote from a famous bike bloke.


Dangerous, no, not the RSV. They were done on a rolling road with one of our race cars. We also noted that fuel from motorway service stations was usually better than the local stations, the only thing we put this down to was that the motorway places had a large turnover of fuel therefore it was fresher, ie the goodies had not evaporated over time. So, always buy your fuel from a BP motorway service station if you want the best road legal fuel you can get, IMHO.

In reply to charts, no I don't have any, we got the dyno time for free so don't get stuff like printouts. For reference with a 160bhp 4 cyl engine you were getting less than 3bhp between all pump fuels, but it all makes a difference. As we were running power limited engines it gave us the chance to alter the valve timing to get more torque though, and still stay within the 160bhp limit. 

By Befbever on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:36 am:

Excuse me, but doesn't anyone notice the poor performance of all the slip-ons and systems above say, 8k rpm? Ripples all over the place.

---

Quote:

Same bike same day, a good data base to work off

---

By Crmc33 on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:49 am:

---

Quote:

As we were running power limited engines it gave us the chance to alter the valve timing to get more torque though, and still stay within the 160bhp limit.

---

By Dangerous on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 09:03 am:

Here's a little something I found which expresses more eloquently and from more experience than I ever could. It is from VP Racing Fuels:

"As in everything there are trade-offs. You can't make a racing fuel that has the best of everything, but you can produce one that will give your engine the most power. This is why VP produces different fuel for different applications. The key to getting the best racing gasoline is not neccesarily buying the fuel with the highest octane but getting the one that is best suited to your engine. Octane is the rating of fuel's ability to resist detonation and/or preignition."

I think that summarises the fuel issues. Regarding more detail on octane, RON, etc. see the website on:

http://www.medfordfuel.com/octane.htm


Dangerous 

By Taffrsv on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 10:54 am:

Deary Deary me what have I done , there I was thinking I was posting a decent data base for people to check to, and I end up with enough pretty pictures to make wall paper from.

Basically I don't give a damn if the fans where on or off or the operator was doing a hand stand with a broom stuck up his jacksy, it was all done on the same bike same dyno same conditions, so its a damn good database to work from.

Heres another thought if the fans where on for one to improve would all the rest not have improved as well.  

By Befbever on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:15 am:

---

Quote:

Heres another thought if the fans where on for one to improve would all the rest not have improved as well.

---

By Taffrsv on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:47 am:

In the UK we seem to use DIN in the test they have used SAE, does anyone know how to convert SAE to DIN, is it possible to convert ???  

By Crmc33 on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 01:17 pm:

I think there is a possibility that the use of fans would benefit some set-ups more than others.

If for instance EPROM brand X was developed using a dyno with no fans then it would show a good output on a dyno with no fans but a poor (lean)output on a dyno with fans.
Compare this to a brand Y EPROM that is developed using fans and the reverse is true, and a over rich low output would be shown on a non fan dyno.

I think that since the EPROM would be calibrated to the amount of air supply on the dyno then even if the EFI compensated for the different inlet pressure difference then there would still be a difference in the readings even on the same bike/dyno/operator arrangement.

This could be an explanation. Or of course simply Brand X mite be better than brand Y!

The question is does it really matter if you are happy with the product? Its always nice to have more power but I openly admit to not being able to use all the performance of a standard Falco never mind a modded one.

Time for a beer I think. 

By Dangerous on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 01:36 pm:

Hey! Crmc33

 

By R100gs on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

You guys need to relax. All Ken did was test some exhaust systems on one Mille, same dyno, same day. If you go to the Aprilia Forum and read the latest posts, he says nothing bad about any of the exhausts. He points out that you should pay attention to the powerband. Pick out the exhaust that fits your particular riding style. Fan or no fan. Many racers rely on dyno tests for the event they race in. If they have too much power, they are DQed. I'm sure these guys think of ram air effect too. Jay  

By Powermaster on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:34 pm:

Some of you have been concerned on how I have been and some in what I have to say, some too have been dying to "kick the dog" while he is down. Well to the first two, I wish to thank you, to the third lot, I hate to disappoint you, but this dog has been kicked before and every time he just gets up and walks away with even more determination to love thou neighbour instead of hatred.
As for how I feel? To those concerned, I am fine and very pleased for such shoot out results. It's not for me to explain the reason why the Renes were so weak and why all the others achieved so little. Maybe Mr Zeller has an opinion? Or having had all this experience with so many makes and the opportunity to see such results, maybe he will decide to create a better system to benefit us all, I am sure that buyers would be queuing for such system. Having tested so many, I presume in different shapes and sizes? Maybe we can figure why such full systems could not better such things as a slip on, some of them from the same manufacturer? Some people have asked how is it possible that on the road they feel the product's power etc, well reading Mr Zeller's comments on the Rene, twice I notice his opinion that the reason clients feel the difference on their "ass dynos" is

---

Quote:

several people have commented on the renegade's power curve vs. the "butt dyno." i believe what you are feeling is the fact that the curve is not really smooth which gives a sense of increased acceleration.

---

---

Quote:

but, as i understand, this does not really show up in riding (in fact, it probably helps to give the feel of stronger pull in that area

---

By R100gs on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 04:54 pm:

Jorge, No one is kicking the dog. I think you may be kicking you own ass by posting to much on this subject. Take it to the forum it came from. Stop this great site from becoming biased. Jay  

By Spoof on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 06:45 pm:

R100gs-- I don't think Jorge has any cause to "take it to the forum it came from". That would be reactionary and defensive. Someone else brought it to this forum and many folks are naturally curious as to what Jorge has to say. I for one am grateful to hear his piece. I don't think that anyone is *really* suggesting that Ken at Evoluzione is being anything but objective in his comments and observations. There may be a touch of good natured ribbing going on, on the same level that one may support say, the United States "defending itself" but also make some conjecture regarding oil and opium interests, eh?

Also, I must say that I find this kneejerk reaction that some folks have, to feel that this site is biased, because it is sponsored by Renegade and because both employees and clients of Renegade readily and frequently participate in the discussions and are willing to defend this product, to be a bit heavy handed. I think that a little more in-depth participation in the discussions here would reveal that all marques are welcome, all products given due consideration, all ideas allowed respect, much more so than on most of the boards I have experienced. Jorge may get up on a soapbox about his products once in awhile, but he can take it like a man if you rib him about it, and ferchrissakesman--- do you want to buy from someone who doesn't believe, with all their heart, in what they're selling?

Finally, let me say that I believe most motorcycle enthusiasts understand that aftermarket cans are about the least bang for the buck to be had. If you are a performance rider on a budget, you should obviously prioritize suspension, tires, gearing and perhaps intake and track schools, before you get around to the exhaust. For street riders, aftermarket exhaust really comes down to looks and sounds. Some may not be pleased to admit it, but it is most certainly true. I do have renegade pipes now, and on previous machines I have had other kinds of pipes. I tend to choose a pipe for the look and sound in relation to the bike and for one other very, very important factor: Customer service and company integrity. The looks and sound quality being evident with Renegade, let me simply add my great feeling of satisfaction in terms of Customer Service; the personal attention to my order and to my satisfaction has been above and beyond that provided with most products I have ever purchased in my life, let alone motorcycle products (with their typically poor service).

I don't know if a Renegade product will be the right choice for me with my next bike (which, with any luck will be a second bike and not a replacement), but I do know that I would recommend them to anyone as being an excellent small and growing business, as defined by passionate people engaged in the process of creating a product of undeniable quality for a fair price and then following through in terms of communication and support. That means a whole lot to me.

Anyhow.... peace out y'all. 

By Befbever on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 07:07 pm:

Mr.Adam (they're calling you Mr.! Yikes! ), what if a Brand E. would decide to use these dyno figures to make their own exhaust and sell it with this comparison as a sales argument? I'm sure plenty of idiots would go for it, don't you think?

Spoof, well said! Again! Boy oh boy, this board's IQ level is so much higher than 'certain' others.  

By Myapriliarsv on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 07:16 pm:

wow you falco guys surprise me all the time... well said spoof 

By Taffrsv on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 08:59 pm:

---

Quote:

Take it to the forum it came from

---

By Powermaster on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 10:45 pm:

Taff, You have been drinking again,?, You brought "the shite" to this site, I do not post in the forum, as I, at my age am not used to being treated like a "shite stir" and have MY theads deleted by an "unbias?" admin. With age, wisdom comes and I am wise enough not to go where I am not welcome.
I am sorry Taff, but once again you failed to compreend me and no matter how much you may dislike me or my product, I would appreciate if you refrain from publicly attacking it until you PAY for that right.
If you find that this site is bias then you have not read what's on the entrance door.


"it's what you make it"  

By Bonerp on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:28 pm:

Yawn! One mans gold is another mans rubbish

I like sultanas, me woman doesn't! Chill!

Guys, this unnecessary behaviour is unnecessary!

Lets all have a group hug and make up!  

By Jotaman on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 01:25 am:

At the end of the day who are we kidding.. look at all the results, what have we got, a max increase of a measly 5-7bhp at the rear wheel for all our hard earned cash...
All the systems try to reduce/remove the midrange flat spot, which is what we all want, and they all are not that bad..
As has been previuosly stated, for this kind of power increase, we are all really (honest...) buying for cosmetic looks and sound.

If you wanted real power, then you would spend your money like Grunt and get the head/valves/cams worked on or go and buy a GXSR 1000

This argument/discussion/comparison allows you to go and make a choice, but please stop posting dyno's for the Mille/Falco's unless you can show some serious improvements - + 10-20 bhp at the rear wheel at max revs over a std /deristricted mille...its BORING....

Maybe next year Aprilia will give us more power, with new engine bore/stroke/cams etc..  

By Crmc33 on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 01:31 am:

dont get it, +10-20 = -10

Maybe that explains the dyno figures?
I was never very good at maffs 

By Jotaman on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 01:36 am:

God it takes all sorts .....don't it... someone tell im.........

maffs or was that muffs ..... 

By Mr_Venjer on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 05:44 am:

Look, we do not all need to get along and bollox to peace sake. If people disagree they disagree. GOOD ! I love an argument and even better if both are valid and informative. Lets not all be the same. I love the double winning Arsenal and hate the yid scum !! GOOD. Lets be happy with our differences.

Lets be angry and argue - but not get personal. Americans are gullable, we saved Europe, fat moraless oafs. The British are beer drinking, hooligan, uncultured, unshapely, tea drinking muppets. Southerners drink shandy and northerners are thick !! You can all gun me if you like but at least I provoked a reaction. How boring if you all agreed with me !!

Kevin.

PS,  

By Rca on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 06:13 am:

All,

I always thought the most important thing about a pipe (for non-racers at least) was what it looked like, what it sounded like and how it made you feel when you ride with it. Where does the dyno-graph show these important factors.

Russell

Thanks for the info. Taff and Powermaster at least I know my Akra system is no worse (or better) than the rest in the power stakes, not that it matters.  

By Crmc33 on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 07:10 am:

I only bought the Falco cos I liked the shape of the key 

By Taffrsv on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:25 am:

Jorge

---

Quote:

You brought "the shite" to this site

---

---

Quote:

With age, wisdom comes and I am wise enough

---

---

Quote:

you may dislike me or my product

---

---

Quote:

I would appreciate if you refrain from publicly attacking it until you PAY for that right.

---

By Befbever on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:47 am:

Guys, what's the use?

Oh and it's
independent. 

By Crmc33 on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:00 pm:

I think Renegade is a stinking pile of poo.

There you go. 

By Bonerp on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 01:59 am:

Kevin,
I agree with everything you say, although I'd like to make it clear we southerners drink Stella shandy, at a ratio of 3:1 (3 being lemonade!!!)
 

By Cecilthecat on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 04:39 am:

Bonerp

Or is 3 hours for 1 pint ?

Simon 

By Salkhan on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 04:44 am:

Geeeeeeeeeeezus...

It's a zoo in here!  

By Taffrsv on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 04:51 am:

Sal are you lost

welcome to the mad house  

By Taffrsv on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 05:04 am:

I apologies now for any post on here after 7-00 pm tonight, for tonight is my league trophy presentation (2nd year in a row) evening, free beer and food, oh boy am I going to get wasted. , from the presentation its a trip down Middlesbrough and then on to the Club International Bongo, Kev you would love it, its owned by a massive West Indian called Abdilia (hope the spellings write) he plays nothing but Reggea, you can get what ever illigal substance you want, and a lady of the night to boot. Yep you've guessed, its a real classy establishment , but a cracking night out.

Taff 

By Myapriliarsv on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 05:32 am:

Taff

I take it your wife does not read your posts.  

By Taffrsv on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 05:37 am:

I should of mentioned that I of course will be sat in a corner wishing my darling wife could be there  

By Crmc33 on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 06:26 am:

---

Quote:

I apologies now for any post on here after 7-00 pm tonight,

---

By Mr_Venjer on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 06:29 am:

I could do with "one of them" nights out. Go on Taff my son. I would never associate you or anyone else on this board with reggae. I am proud of you

You may laugh about the shandy but I ask for it loud and proud at the bar. "Make sure its a half and half !!!" As long as its sweet and gets me lashed i'm having it. You beer drinkers are sick people. Ale is even worse and i won't talk about guiness drinkers - fookin madmen !!

Kevin 

By Taffrsv on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 06:34 am:

AAAAHHH you got me



I suppose I've been asking for that  

By Vineil on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 06:38 am:

I have read the above, and you all seem to have missed the point. Its not the power of the bike, its the weight of the rider. The mille weighs what?...about 190kg's, you add a 16 stone rider, thats 100kgs more, half the wieght of the bike, then its gonna go slower than with a 80kg rider. Its all down to power to weight ratio. Thats whats importannt, not 1-3hp.

You mad fools.  

By Salkhan on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 06:46 am:

Not lost...

Just need to watch where I step I suppose? :D  

By Diablo_Mille_R on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 07:57 am:

The Bongo Club!!! That place should have been shut down years ago, juat don't stray the worng side of the railway line (The border!) on your way out, you could be in big trouble 

By Rca on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 08:04 am:

Viney,

"then its gonna go slower than with a 80kg rider"

There's always an exception to the rule and I guess thats why David Jefferies a big fat b****rd well known for his pie eating aswell as riding prowess did such a fast lap at the TT.

Russell  

By Crmc33 on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 10:39 am:

Cos it helps the damping.

Ive been using the excuse for years. 

By Spoof on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 11:03 am:

Plus hefty lads are less afraid of snapping their bones like twigs.

And that means extra confidence 

By Crmc33 on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 01:01 pm:

less afraid but it still happens 

By Rsvtoddy on Friday, June 14, 2002 - 03:53 pm:

Feck Taff - the Bongo club - hope u have a good bodyguard or 2.

Enjoy it! One good thing - the girls (and I mean girls, not women/ladies) are real cheap down the Boro (so I'm told).

CYA Soon  

By Myapriliarsv on Saturday, June 15, 2002 - 04:16 pm:

okay...i cannot take it anymore...I just cannot keep quiet...sorry guys its not in my nature

I must start out by saying i think ken's dyno day was a great idea and i really wish i could have been there, and i wish i could have been there as an unbiased spectator.

i also must add not in my wildest dreams did i think that i would see the results that i saw. i did not think that the renegades were going to make all otehr systems look like crap...i figured we would be strong in one area while maybe another brand would be strong in another.

when i saw the results i was like what the F happened. i will throw some thoughts out there and you can do as you want...believe me i am not looking to start any battles... however I do seem to start some controvesy from time to time...but what the hell it makes for some good reading

okay bare with me and realize my main business is owning a small chain of furniture stores. in college when not drinking, playing rugby and trying to get laid i studied justice and law administration,...not engineering... yes i went from wanting to be a Drug Enforement Agent to owning a furniture store...figure that one out...i am stilling trying to myself

1. the results show that slip ons gave similar gains as a full dual systems. that is strange as i believe that i recall ken and ed maybe even micah saying that full systems (duals) will give much better mid range gains than slipons. but the dynos don't show that...hmmmmm

is it possible that the extra air flow that any full dual system allows to pass through the engine is too much for a dyno without proper fans? is it that the readings are not as accurate because at a certain point the bike hits a wall without realistic air flow??? just a thought.
maybe just maybe all of the dual full systems would have shown better results if the dyno used had fans that would give more real world riding results.
it does not make sense that a slip on should be giving nearly as good of results as the dual full system.

2. it seems that many people are thinking that the Renegade EPROM attributed to the results being lower than stock.
For many of the guys that have been here awhile you will recall when i started the whole FP debate last winter....you know where I claimed it ran poorly with my bike's set up.
well since then it has been determined that each year that the mille has been produced, significantly different fuel pressure has been a problem...causing any bike with the FP EPROM to be dialed in and have a fuel pressure regulator installed for best results. you know synching throttle bodies and such along with fue pressure regualtor...
I am assuming that the test bike is dialed in to work best with the FP EPROM. (I assume that as ken sells FP and most like likey has his own bike dialed in to work at its optimal performance.
However the Renegade EPROM is tested and produced to work with a bike with stock settings...please understand this is not any flame toward FP, but that the test bike shows best results with systems using the FP EPROM...but again remember the bike is most likely not dialed in to stock settings, but to the settings that is needed to make the FP EPROM perform to its optimum.

That being the case the dynos may have had a negative effect on any dyno run on any exhaust using an eprom other than the FP EPROM. just a thought and not looking for a battle, lol.

3. someone mentioned that the bike also is different than apriliaconverted's bike. so be it, it is. they also said that the fp eprom and our air kit would equal at least 5 hp more...

ken tested the bike with:
1. renegade eprom
2. evol air kit
3. evol ignition amp.

apriliaconverted has:
1. fp eprom
2. renegade air kit

so with that in mind i think that a bike dialed to the eprom that is in the bike will perform best... the FP EPROM works great when the bike is dialed properly and the Renegade EPROM works great on a bike with stock settings. are the air kits going to give that different of a reading?

Even Marc at FP mentioned that he found the Renegade EPROM to be a quality product and that it was obvious when he had tested it that Jorge had put alot of energy into it. He did add that he felt that he could get more power out of a bike with his eprom and some dialing....that may or may not be true, but again our renegade eprom is meant to work best on bikes that are set at stock settings....

4. the Renegade dual full system does not perform less than stock on any bike that i have tested or seen tested. i am not claiming that it performs any better or any worse than any other full system on the market as i have only owned renegade....but it does perform better than stock...period.
nobody has ever claimed that it performed poorer than stock and nobody has claimed that they lost power over the stock bike. yes i know w few guys have been unhappy and have sold their system...that is fine, but none have said that it was less than their stock exhaust only that it did not live up to their expectations over another after market exhaust..

okay...let the games (should i say flames) begin...

And for all that didn't figure it out...I am a USA sales Rep for Renegade...how is that Chad5?

Sorry dude, but i had to give you some heat.....see ya at Laguna... we'll have a beer and talk about Salkhan's lastest purchase  

By Zhaith on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 03:49 am:

Ok time for my 2 cents....

I personally am beginning to lose the plot here of late, or am I so dumb and naive as to think that the reason for this site's existance is to provide a home and sense of community for all things aprilia.

I own a falco, and yes I have rene's fitted to it, and before anyone thinks here we go again another rene advert it aint!, the reason I have rene's is mainly cause of the location (approx 10 miles from my parents house) and whilst visiting said parents and getting very bored listening to my mum's poxy parrot scream it's sodding head off, I thought i'd spend some cash, if Akra, RSC or any other manufacturer had been in the same location then they would have got my order not renegade!. Having said that, i'm pleased with my puchase and if anyone wants my opinion then i'm more than happy to tell them what I think.

I personally don't see the point in getting stressed over what make of zorst someone else has on their bike, if someone want's to praise or slag off a product they own then hey who am I to criticize them, each to their own. What does begin to piss me off is when such a comment degenerates into a slagging match involving personal attacks, pretty much like this current thread has done.

So can we please dispense with this my chip/zorst/dad/penis is bigger/better/longer/fatter than yours bollox and get back to the normal state of affairs as I find this all really quite tedious and boring.

Phil

I ride a falco and have a small penis but i don't care comment as you see fit  

By Zhaith on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 03:51 am:

oops double post 

By Rca on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 05:09 am:

Phil,

Your post raised a thought: Just imagine if the zorst mfrs also made penis extenders, then we could debate the benefits of the titanium vs the carbon models, show graphs of how much bigger it is after using brand A instead of brand B. Renegade would no doubt also make a new bollox box with some extra benefits.

Russell 

By Bonerp on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 10:40 am:

Had one shandy too much last night and dreamt my penis had renegade stamped on it. According to the woman, I was REALLY performing - who needs a dyno?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now where me Ti Leo can gone.....phut phut phut