|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 05:46 am:|
I've not seen anyone post a chart like this, so here is mine:
Blue - Dynojet rwbhp
Yellow - Fuchs rwbhp
pink - dynojet torque
purple - Fuchs torque
These graphs were taken within a week of each other using the same bike, a slightly modded RSV. As you can see the Fuchs and the dynojet both give different values, and most significantly, different shape curves. It seems either the dynojet reads high, of the fuchs reads low, except for round the magic 5500rpm flat spot, which is no where near as flat on a Fuchs and both read about the same. Obviously this is only 2 dyno's, so they may not represent all fuchs or dynojet dyno's. This is just for info, or have you any comments?
**edited due to CRMC comments****
|By Crmc33 on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 06:13 am:|
first question ,
have you got the key to the lines the right way round?
Im not surprised theres a difference between the two. Best sticking to the same dyno.... ideally the one that is operated by an operator who is kind to your engine and charges the least !
|By Mark on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 06:56 am:|
Things as simple as air pressure, chain adjustment can affect output on different days. Even how hard the bike is pulled down on to the roller can influence it. I believe Fuchs dynos comensate for a few factors whereas Dynojet ones dont, Jorge is the man to ask really.
As Crmc33 says, best to stick to one guy you trust then you are more likely to see improvements when you perform tuning mods on your RSV as you have a known benchmark to go from.
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 11:40 am:|
best to stick to one guy you trust then you are more likely to see improvements when you perform tuning mods on your RSV as you have a known benchmark to go from.
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 11:53 am:|
Even how hard the bike is pulled down on to the roller can influence it.
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 12:06 pm:|
I'm glad this got a few responses, I thought it was a fine example of how comparing dyno figures is pub talk really. Even the same bike here gave totally diffrent shape curves. I would have expected strapping down force, air presure, fans runnning or not, fat or skinny dyno operator, worn roller, correction factors would give the same shape curve, with a shift up or down (or gradually increasing or decreasing differences)due to the factors. But here that is not the case as the fundamental engine characteristics are different. I can only put this down to the dynojet and the Fuchs measuring and smoothing using different methods and algorithms.
Just to note none of this data was off the Rene dyno so your magic button did not influence anything(jk B4 it starts...)
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 01:19 pm:|
But I should know that, unless you sent your undercover squad
There are reasons for the curve to be different I tried to explain earlier but you are not listening, I will show you one day, if you care to come in with time to spare. I will show you how the magic botton works.
If you bring your bike even better, I might even get more money out of you
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 01:33 pm:|
hehe Jorge, if it is any consellation to you I have not spent anything (except for one rear tyre) since January when I bought the airkit off you. As you can see my northern roots are still firmly in place, and my deep pockets and short arms mean the bike is not covered in aftermarket bits Besides, as you will well know with a baby DMR on the way my pocket money has been reduced and now only just covers a tank of fuel and a 4 pack of beer per week I will eventually call in on the bike and let it deafen you, I really must get some repacking material soon, when I leave the house on a morning if Jus has the bedroom window ajar she can hear me 2 miles away exiting the village
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 02:33 pm:|
Are you sure you have not met Taf?
He knows a Guy in America
|By Taffrsv on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:01 pm:|
2 F's please
He knows a Guy in America
|By Powermaster on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 03:10 pm:|
Oh Dear, Oh Dear, got your nickers in a twist Taff? I don't think your answer came from your heart, so I will give you time to regroup,
|By Myapriliarsv on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 04:32 am:|
Is that the guy in Cali that flamed me all over the boards...told me my defective bike and the defective rider was the reason for not finding his product to work? funny now 4 months later it is all over the boards that their product doesn't work unless you buy other products to make it work...ahhh, now we see what is defective
|By Befbever on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 04:45 am:|
Btw Fuchs Dynos do not vary from each other, anyone care for a challenge, Bef already got the proof, between Belgium and UK Fuchs
|By Crmc33 on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 04:57 am:|
Shirley it depends on how hard ya tyres are pumped up?
Im stickin to me favoured dyno man that no-one else in the world knows about. So much so, I havent even had the Falco on a dyno! Might do one day tho, you never know!
Gives me yet another good excuse for lame riding.
|By Taffrsv on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 05:02 am:|
Was not expecting that 2 members of the RRS come out in defense of the Lord God Almighty
sorry to here you got slated, not nice is it, as far as the defective product goes, it works a treat for me but yes I have fitted the fuel reg, bikes models change in time and what used to works on the old stops working on the new, and these need issues need to be addressed as GENTLEMEN
|By Diablo_Mille_R on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 05:02 am:|
Jorge, I've never met Taff, but my mother has. I do email a bit with Taff though, bouncing ideas off each other about stuff. I'm not really sure the relevance to this though, except for he lives 5 miles from where I used to.
Who is the american, Jim Fish...?
|By Powermaster on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 09:06 am:|
OK, Taff, let me explain myself better in the hope that it will calm things down here a bit: I joked with Diablo because he said he was a tight northern git... sort of like you mentioning a similar kind of thing about yourself in the past when you decided to make your own 'airkit' instead of purchasing my product - hence, the "are you sure....".
The rest, about "the American", was because I cannot imagine that any "tight git" would go and splash out a fortune JUST because a guy called him from America (FWIW, I call the States 20 times a day and Australia another 10 - can you imagine how rich I'd be by now if every single one of these calls resulted in a sale?!).
I've got nothing against Mr FP: we've never met, we've never spoken and we are not in competition... I do not sell Eproms!!!
My only sin was to test a bike which had the FP eprom fitted and show my then client the results for his bike.
Renegade and it's clients are one big family so it's only natural that we are united. RiderSite (including ApriliaRiderSite, TriumphRiderSite etc.) is the same. We accept that it may be difficult for those 'outside' of this family to understand what all the fuss is about (where else do you think RRS came from? It wasn't from within the family!), but perhaps Diablo can give you a little insight in this direction.
As for the "shite" emails, they were no more than my own personal feelings about you making me look like a fool by copying something that I spent so much time working on... hence the use of private email, to keep the matter between you & me, BUT you seem intent on broadcasting our affairs throughout a public domain.
I am not upset about you "copying" the airkit - what upset me was your photos online and you leading many people to believe that I was making a fortune out of them with nothing more than simply "a stupid plate & a filter". That cost me a lot in terms of potentially lost sales to those who know no better than to believe what they read on the net!
I guess, therefore, that instead of trying to share a joke with people who don't know me better/understand where I'm coming from/what I'm all about & so on, it's best that I concentrate on manufacturing my products & serving my clients to ensure that they are happy.
The Lord God Almighty
|By Befbever on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 11:11 am:|
Praise The Lord!
Ho hum, shouldn't laugh actually. I don't find much of this funny.
I just thought I'd point out that Jorge first called me about a subject not at all exhaust-related. I wasn't a client and had to persuade him to talk about his product. I just wish more people in the bike business were this serious about their customer service and products.
Yeah, yeah I know. My love affair with Renegade etc. blah blah blah. These people don't deserve the treatment they sometimes get, so forgive me if I make an effort to defend them. They're a fabulous bunch.
I'll drink to that. Anyone join me?
|By Daz on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 11:38 am:|
I don't need to be asked twice!!
Oooh feck, I's had too much!
|By Taffrsv on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 03:13 pm:|
Lets all follow Daz and have a drink, this is not the place to sort this out, it will give the site and Aprilia a bad name.I'll agree to disagree with the RRS and leave it at that. I publically apologise if I have harmed any business or upset anyone, that was never my intension, but there again why should I or anyone else not RRS related be attacked.
|By Crmc33 on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 10:56 pm:|
"Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created thy airkit, and because of Your will they existed, and were created."
|By Trollybus on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 12:30 am:|
TextTextThought i had to add to this was riding around as an atheist looked upon the religious order off renagade to seek the our lord god and the holly grail we found both one being the man the other being a sorted rsv was bought into the fold and made to feel like one off the flock cracking time cracking wine cracking food
|By Crmc33 on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 12:46 am:|
|By Richandall on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 03:32 am:|
|By Mr_Venjer on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:34 am:|
I love God so I shan't join in the religous jokes. I will defend Renegade to the max because I have been shown nothing but honesty. Jorge's explanations to all things bike related to me have made sense and, for the most part, have been proven as opposed to hearsay. I know F'all about bikes and I suppose I am a salesmans dream, but Jorge proves things first which is something noble and appreciated by me.
There are too many scheisters around and I refuse to get done by them !
I feel that any anti Renegade sentiment to be perpetrated by bad minded, jealous individuals. Having read numerous threads on this and the EZboards about Renegade I have come to the conclusion that Renegade have proved themselves to be correct, time and time again. Rather than admit they are wrong these people continue to bad mouth Renegade. furry muff.
Jorge IS very passionate about biking and goes further in his quest for the right product than others I have seen.
The only thing I can criticise about Jorge is, if you are in a hurry whilst engaged in business with him you might be a little while longer than you anticipated. All in good taste naturally.
The Venjer, peace to all my nuggas.
|By Taffrsv on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 03:22 am:|
since you have replyied to this post I presume its me you are calling bad minded, jealous and a nugga, why ??? what have I done to you or anyone.
I'm pleased all has worked out for you and many others down at Rene and I respect your opinions, he makes a good product and is passionate about bikes.
My sin, if it is a sin is to make my own airkit and post pic's of it on the web, I did not post pic's to have a go at anyone or cost anyone money, I posted because I was pleased with myself and wanted to show other like minded people what I had done. If I wanted to be malicious I could post pic's of all the engineering drawings and procedures and tooling sheets but I won't.
You can look round any board and you will not find me bad mouthing or slagging or ridiculing anyone (apart from Milkie), so why should I be attacked by the RRS, take for example my first post on the FP chip, straight away someone jumped in with, basically I have a mate who knows more and is better than you, and Jorge put it right, "WHY" I put on the bottom of the post I did not want to get into a slagging match, it only happened on here, all other boards took it as it was "MY FINDINGS".
Correct me if I'm wrong but is this not the INDEPENDANT RIDERSITE not the RENEGADE SITE, so I should be allowed to post what I want, without being attacked.
I read Jorges answer very carefully and I have alot I could say but I won't, there is alot of untruths in there but I will leave it at that.
Now here's a thought for you, Aprilia (SP) and Evo had a airkit out before Renegade, did they have a go at Renegade I think not.
Lets finish this once and for all, we have never met and probably never will but lets stay friends, all be it over the web.
|By Mental_Trev on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 04:41 am:|
Lets finish this once and for all, we have never met and probably never will but lets stay friends, all be it over the web.
|By Taffrsv on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 04:54 am:|
|By Mr_Venjer on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 07:49 am:|
Taff, my statement was open. It was aimed at those who have had a pop at Jorge unfairly (in my view). There is a saying, "if the cap fits". I did not mention any names because those with anti Jorge sentiment know who they are.
There is another saying, a west indian one. "I throw my corn, I never called any fowl. If you want to pick it up and eat it and choke, that is your business". Again, all I am saying is I made a statement. If you want to take offence or believe I am referring to you then that is your business.
I have no problem with you Taff. I find your posts informative and interesting. I read your airkit posts with interest on the EZboard. If I had your mechanical skills I would have done exactly the same.
Please don't think that I am having a go at you.
Oh yeah, the nuggas bit is a bit of a "black" thing. Substitute the "u" for an "I" and you see what I mean.
|By Taffrsv on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 08:03 am:|
No problem Kev, I am just getting a bit Pi**ed off with it all.
I have never met Jorge but I met someone yesterday at Croft and he said Jorge is a smashing bloke and can't understand where all this crap has come from, I hope me and Jorge can sort our difference, I understand he likes his food, we will have to meet up for a beer and some food, that always works.
|By Mr_Venjer on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 08:59 am:|
Go there on a saturday. The food is most excellent .I don't know if its meant to be a secret but i'm glad I stumbled across it
|By Myapriliarsv on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 11:55 am:|
I have yet to meet Jorge in person myself...but I do know it isn't the food he likes best ...
|By Befbever on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:21 am:|
Jim, forget Jorge, think Tomoko.
I've seen your bike and hey, it is a black thing!
|By Trollybus on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 11:13 pm:|
All round Jorges for lunch then and im with befbever its definatly Tomoko
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